Young Living distributors who are worried about what they have been taught, need to read the emails below. Coming from a wide spectrum of people, they confirm the fears about Gary Young and Young Living and their scams. These are a few years old, but still highly relevant as they prove beyond doubt that Gary Young was a fraud and quack when he first founded his cult. He also clearly knew nothing about the wider essential oils trade or aromatherapy but instead he made it up as he went along.

This is an edited version of "The Young Living" which was originally on another site. That version was terribly difficult to read as it contained all the header details, duplicated messages and thousands of exchanges. Clearly few would bother to read all of that, so I decided to try and edit it down to encourage others to read the valuable information some of those emails contained. I have removed email addresses and names but I still have the original files and they were all posted in a public newsgroup. The 'off topic' emails are also removed. Also, I removed the marketing letters from Young Living distributors as they are brain washed zombies endlessly repeating the same lies and hype that Gary Young and his teachers spin.

Many of the emailed questions from group members in these files are far better dealt with by reading the reviews of Young Living on the other URLs on the links page of this site:

You may consider why it is that neither Young Living or Gary himself have sued any of the people who publicly call him a dangerous confidence trickster? This is because he dare not face cross examination in a court as he knows exactly what he is:- A FRAUDSTER OF THE WORST POSSIBLE KIND, someone who sells scam cures and makes cash out of ill and vulnerable people. The organisation also promote themselves to Christians and their churches, while their leader is about as far from following Christian teachings as it is possible to get.

Subject: summary of YL answers
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:28:19 EDT

I had several people ask me to forward answers to my previous questions.
I thought I'd summarize the answers that I received privately and post them for any other lurkers who were interested. These are the answers to my Young Living Questions. I will post the answers to the "NOW" questions later today(hopefully)

Please note, also that I am not using any names. I don't want those who posted me privately to feel that I've betrayed them. The two positive responses to YL are at the end of this message.

My Question was:
Does anyone know anything about the Young living EO company and are they reputable.


"A good supplier will always truthfully provide country of origin and the Latin name of the plant, as well as the part of the plant displayed on the label. I'm not sure about his (Gary Young) land holdings in France...If, however, he had thousands (the number it would take to produce the amount of oils he must be selling by now) of acres of fields in Utah and Idaho, I'm sure there would be public knowledge by now...I have always had a problem with his exclusivity. To me this reads: danger.

Why doesn't he partake of this wonderful list and share his own knowledge with peer review and openness? We know by now that he knows we exist and he has not acknowledged numerous invitations through his distributors to join. This is not behavior that encourages me to trust his teachings and philosophy. He also makes therapeutic recommendations that are possibly dangerous, according to my training and education."

"they seem to endorse and suggest really dangerous practices. Note the use of undiluted oregano oil" (Amy's note: I bought some oregano from YL because I had read from their literature that rubbing it on the soles of one's feet would help canker sores-I have since learned that Oregano should not be used on the skin undiluted. But I learned that on my own, not from YL)

"he will not provide the rest of the aromatherapy community with proofs of his claims. Especially as he spouts weird things like his "Rainbow Therapy" which he says straightens the spine!

"Just be very careful and especially watch his pricing structure which is Multi Level Marketing based therefore is very likely to cost the end user much more than other companies charge for EO's.

"Another thing...One of the chemists on the list analysed some of YL's oils, Jasmine, and found that it contained 20% of DPG which is a common adulterant used by companies to "pad out" oils. This DPG is NOT found in Jasmine naturally." (EDITORS NOTE: This post was from 1997 and it should not be assumed to be the case now. It makes no difference to the lies that Gary Young promoted at the start of his cult building activies. Time and time again he claimed that ALL his oils were the finest quality and pure. Clearly he did not know enough to make that claim and/or had no checks in place to control quality at that time.

"YL is really actively disliked on this list, both because of the pyramid-marketing set-up...and because of the many dubious or downright unsafe practices that are recommended. People on this list have expressed a *lot* of worry about (a) YL customers getting hurt by doing dangerous things like rubbing undiluted oils on their skin and (b) the fact that these wild and dangerous claims are going to get *all* of aromatherapy into trouble with the AMA, FDA, and other regulatory bodies."

"Gary Young of Young Living makes a lot of recommendations that are considered to be possibly hazardous or dangerous by most of the aromatherapists on this list. He also has claimed credentials that we tried to verity, to no avail. There's something to be cautions about here. We have invited Gary many times to participate on the list (through his distributors) and he doesn't respond at all."

But I also got these messages:

"YLEO's are being widely promoted in my area by some very reputable and well known alternative healers. I have used them without any problem."

Sorry this was so long, but I wanted to be thourough.


Date: 23 Feb 97 17:46:06 EST
From: Vivian Lunny
Subject: Re: Facts or Fiction?

Dear Sue,
As a founder member of the International Federation of Aromatherapists and a Council Member since 1990, I would like to clarify that Gary Young is not an overseas full member of the International Federation of Aromatherapists, this can also be double checked by writing to The International Federation of Aromatherapists.

It would appear that people mention the IFA for their own personal gains, without being members or acredited by us.

Hope this clarifies the situation for all the members of the list.
With kind regards and best wishes

Vivian N. Lunny MD
IFA International Liaison Council Member
From: E
To: G
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002
Subject: Young Living Essential Oils

Let me know if you have any further ideas on how to get this Gary Young crackpot out of business.

My friend has a child with a precancerous illness called Familial Adenomatous Polyposis. This disease causes hundreds to thousands of colon polyps to develop beginning in childhood, and the only method to prevent their malignant transformation is surgical removal of the colon.

Somehow my friend has come under the influence of this Young, and traveled from our local area to Utah - 2,000 miles -to bring his son for a "consultation". Young claims that his essential oil treatments and nutritional supplements can cure these polyps.

Now I know Young's "degree" comes from a mail order diploma mill, Bernadean University. I did not just take the YL files word for it, I called up YL myself and verified this. I also asked whether Young was licensed to practice naturopathy in Utah, and was told yes (which is false) and asked for his license number, and was told that the organization could not give that out (also a lie, if Young were licensed, then that info would be on the Utah Division of Professional Licensing web site). So not only is the man untrained, unqualified, unlicensed, he is a liar too! Also the Utah DOPL tells me he is currently under investigation.

So not only is he bilking my friend out of tons of money which he doesn't have, he is infusing false hope, he is needlessly complicating his life with bogus elaborate rituals for the use of oils, a horribly restrictive diet, and overpriced YL nutritional supplements. And he must be harming the kid- the father says that the "toxins are coming right out of his feet") Young must have dropped neat oils onto the kid's feet, burned them, and brainwashed my friend into the toxin nonsense.

I could go on and on, but mostly, if you know anyone else who has first hand knowledge of Young's illegal activities, have them e-mail me, and I will give them the name of the Utah DOPL investigator
assigned to the case.
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 02:08:16 -0400
Subject: Re: EO's and metabolism?

I am familiar with careful...I have heard..from many clients of his classes nationwide...and they do make outrageous(cures cancer and aids!!) claims...and have some new "drop" which they drop certain essential oils..pure strength... on the body..on certain meridians.until some reaction occurs?? that is what a client passed on to me...oils like Birch!! which is quite strong....I don't agree with most of what I am hearing...and anyone who says that you should read NOONE else's books but his own...maybe is akin to(can we say...brainwashing??!!) what hooey...afraid of people finding out that he might be doing something...dangerous??!! come all these people BEFORE him are wrong..and his book is the only true word of aromatherapy???

Legend in his OWN mind?? plenty of other research out there...I am open to hear ALL of it...but I think this is not good for our industry...these claims could close us down one day!

Can we spell.....David Koresh, boys and girls?? Caveat Emptor!!!

Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 08:09:05 -0700 Cc:
Subject: Re: Young Living Oils

I know people who used to work with Gary Young and they don't have any thing good to say about him. The operation resembles a cult in my mind. It is a MLM. The drop therapy is "raindrop" therapy and I know of people who have had burns on their back after the treatment!!

I would be cautious.



Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 16:48:44 +0000
Subject: Re: Young Living Essential Oils

John S wrote:

> ...we have hired the attorney firm of Ray, Quinney & Nebeker to create a National American Aromatherapy >Association in order to create a Grading System. When this work is completed, we will register with the FTC and FDA and establish a standard by which all essential oils coming into the U.S. will have
Gee, did anybody at young living think about contacting the rest of the aromatherapy community before blazing off and inviting more government regulation. Do you think it might be a good idea to bounce it around a little for feedback before committing the industry to what some attorney thinks is best for the rest of us folks. From what I am hearing on the list, circumstances relating to young livings distributors are creating a basis for such regulation. I have been impressed with the voluntary non-coercive self regulation that the natural health community has created for itself. Young livings approach seems exclusionary and reckless. Where is young living at in this interaction? Have any proposals or interactions occurred with the FDA? Will there be any invitation to the "rest" of the industry to comment? Are there alternative approaches? What is the downside of "required inspection & approval" on every import? Will this just result in increased prices across the board? I have lots of questions and hope young living will use the same initiative in communicating with the industry to provide some answers! Jim
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 23:06:04 -0400
Subject: Re: EO's and metabolism?

Yes, I've heard Gary Young speak about his research and I'm not as impressed as you. For example he compared the antibacterial properties of some oils vs. penicillin against gram negative bacteria. Penicillin isn't used to treat gram negative infections because it's not effective there; so what's his point? He does recommend excessive amounts of oil applied directly to the skin. He doesn't give credit to other acknowledged aromatherapists and discourages reading other books, yet his own recent book I wouldn't recommend to anyone. He's clearly in a MLM program and thus his oils are overpriced.
I'm not saying his oils aren't good quality (I can't determine that), but good quality oils are available elsewhere for a lot less money.
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 09:11:00 +0000
Subject: Young Living (my 2 cents)

Last weekend I attended the Body, Mind, & Spirit Expo in Dallas and YL had a very nice booth. The rep I spoke with was very scientific and I enjoyed that but...when she started talking about this guy red flags went up. It was like she took 5-10 minutes to explain eo's and their quality (I'm already a believer of AT), and another 20-30 min to talk about Gary Young and becomming a distributor. She gave me a tape "The Missing Link" and that has made me more cautious. It's like he wants to cure the whole world with his eo blends ie cancer, eboli, aids, ect.

After reviewing all the info they gave me, I think I'll stick with L..... and others on the list. I don't like to diss anyone, but some of this sounds dangerous to the rest of the AT community. IMO I hope this guy is challenged. Please keep us updated.

Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 12:44:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Young Living Essential Oils Sender:

Man -o-Man
If one company controls the "standards" for essential oils, Call me an outlaw. I'm going underground. Unless of course my company can control those standards. (just kidding)

I was personally involved in the wood industry for many years. Voluntary standards were created by all members of the industry. Including all parties of interest. Standards evolved through meetings sponsored by a true trade association, one without financial interest in any particular product line.

I haven't been following this Young Living stuff.

Standards are great, but I don't want the fox guarding the hen house.

Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:10:55 -0700
Subject: Re: FDA "rumors" 6-19-96,

Hello everyone, I apologize for the long post in advance.

I was not talking about aromatherapy standards and qualifications for certification for individual aromatherapists. I should have been more clear in my post, I did simply say "standards.".

I was referring to the essential oil quality standards supposedly being developed by a small group of folks in this country. Our earlier information (posted 4/23/96) suggested that...(and I quote) " Young Living also does extensive research and had opened the only essential oil clinical research center approved by the FDA. This facility, located in Utah, is currently working on establishing a standard by which all essential oils coming into the U.S. will have to be tested and approved in order to be labeled 'pure 100% natural essential oils' for aromatherapy and aromacology."

4/24/96 posted that Dr. Young of Young Living writes....."we have hired the attorney firm of Ray, Quinney & Nebeker to create a National American Aromatherapy Association in order to create a Grading Standards Board. We are excited About the research we are conducting at Weber State University and the addition of Dr. Edward Walker, Dean of the Chemistry Department, to our Aromatherapy Grading Standards Board."

Needless to say, many of us were quite curious about this. Just what does "FDA approval" mean to this essential oil research clinic? I have yet to find information about a National American Aromatherapy Association. Does anyone out there know who they are and where we can get in touch with them?

I did find a Dr. Edward Walker at Weber State University (or at least I thought I had found him) and sent him an email requesting information about their project, information on the Aromatherapy Grading Standards Board, a listing of its members, and asking to be kept posted on developments and recommendations to the FDA. I heard nothing from him. I have reposted my original request to him for more information. It came back the second time undeliverable.

So, what do you think, all smoke & mirrors from Young Living? Even so, this does not aleviate our collective problem of establishing formal credibility and standards (various) as an industry.

>IT WOULDN'T SURPRISE ME AT ALL if the FDA were to address "therapeutic outcome claims" being made >about various essential oils and their uses --and mis-labeling re: purity.

I don't think this would surprise any one of us. Many of you trained abroad indicate that "European Standards" should be adopted in the U.S. Is it feasible for someone in the UK or Europe to post information on these standards? Maybe just post the appropriate agencies and their addresses so someone here can contact them to gather complete information, if posting the actual information is cumbersome. This information could be valuable to a committee at NAHA to review to help shape standards to recommend the appropriate governing bodies in the U.S. I feel strongly that if we don't spearhead this effort and watchdog ourselves, we could end up all being trashed by the FDA or other regulatory bodies.

BTW, here in Washington, health care providers are required to offer alternative treatment (the list is not complete yet, but includes herbal medicine, massage therapy and chiropractic) to their customers. If the primary doctor refers, the provider is required to pay the entire amount of treatment. If he does not refer, but the customer seeks it anyway, the provider is required to reimburse the customer up to 60% of the cost of alternative treatments. This is a good step forward towards acceptance of alternative medicine. The insurance companies are embracing the concept of "wellness" and "preventative." This, of course, costs them less in the long run, which is their motivation.

> Yet, I am curious to know if anyone has SPECIFIC information about any CURRENT involvement re: essential oils >and their use by the FDA???

Do we really want to wait for SPECIFIC/CURRENT information FROM the FDA? I would think a more appropriate goal would be to be in the position to make solidly researched recommendations TO the FDA when the appropriate time comes. This means lots of hard work and dilligence, but in the long run it probably would be better for the aromatherapy industry now developing in this country. Several economic sources have listed aromatherapy as one of the fastest growing industries in the U.S. Do we think the FDA (and the drug companies) are oblivious to this fact. Are they going to help us emerge as an industry or hinder us? The word "aromatherapy" is already questionable for appropriateness in this country because it contains the word therapy, which, if one follows the rules, can only be used by health professionals as defined by allopathic medicine. What would we use in its place if the word were banned? It is hard enough to have the tape over our mouths with regard to all the other stuff we can't speak about.

I realize I'm opening a real can of very slimy and wiggly worms and many of my questions/suggestions are somewhat convoluted and open ended. There are no immediate answers for our dilema. Although I don't have a great deal of time to volunteer immediatley, I would be willing to save and organize all posts relative to this issue so that they can be easily passed on to people in a digest form.

I apologize again for the long post. Hope this answers your question, Lar...., and prompts some posts of more good information to digest.

Be well,
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:07:25 -0400
Subject: Re: FDA "rumors" 6-19-96,

A few comments on this interesting thread...

n a message dated 96-07-24 22:29:33 EDT, Marcia writes:

>I was referring to the essential oil quality standards supposedly being developed by a small group of folks in this >country. Our earlier information (posted 4/23/96) suggested that...(and I quote) " Young Living also does extensive >research and had opened the only essential oil clinical research center approved by the FDA.

I didn't know that the FDA could or would approve a research center.?? I thought their job was to police claims made on products and safety for us of these. Why would they get involved in research???? (unless perhaps they (FDA) are in the MLM program too!!!)

Well, what is this? Can anyone from the YL group enlighten us? (I'd be willing to bet this guy is -coincidentally- also a supplier of YL products - if he exists at all. ) snipped....

It is the ridiculous claims they will address (e.g. cancer, hearing loss,cardiovascular disease), and the first time someone gets hurt (and it is reported) is when they will step in. I know that several compainis have already been visited by the FDA re: claims in using EO products for acne, etc and they have had to revise their labels as tea tree 'had not been approved as a OTC drug for acne', etc so they cannot put that on their labels. They (the FDA) have the facts and figures on other lines of products and the claims and promotional material generated by such product companies as well as the fact that they use known dangerous or untested oils. Whether or not they take action is another story. It will probably take an accident to get their attention, and then it may be too late for us - they could restrict our use in any form. This is the one reason we must use well documented safety and efficacy material as our back-up for claims and safe use of EO's .

AS far as the European standards go, if there are any-please let's hear them- , they do not even address the safe and efficacious use (as far as I know).

Many schools still teach the use of obscure and untested oils and claim properties that are unproven and based on observation or internal use of herb. Besides, if the USA FDA cannot accept the Commission E (Germany) report on safe use of herbs, therefore approving use here, what makes you think they would accept the lesser known and unfounded 'standards' on EO use?

Just a few comments to spur on this discussion.....
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:04:08 -0400
From: S...
Subject: Re: Gary Young Behind Bars? (And I don't mean Soap or Candy)

Hi Mar,

Yes, he has been turned into the FDA by several acquaintences who commented on his book (and promotional tapes) statements pointing out all the dangerous activities and incorrect statements he has made and what a nusience he is to the general public health. Unfortunately, it will probably take many people getting their eardrums burnt before they act on any investigation. You know how "they" are. Perhaps if we all banded together and sent individual letters, it might mean more than one or two complaints? can you get anyone to do this? do you have any hard evidence?

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:41:43 +0800
Subject: hyperthyroidism

Hello Everyone,

My fiancee has a case of hyperthyroidism and has been under medication for a couple of years and hasn't gotten better. I wonder if there are any EOs out there that can help his condition? I read from the YL ESSENTIAL OILS ONLINE NEWSLETTER that Myrrh "decongests the prostrate and normalizes hyper-thyroid problems." Is there any basis for this? If so, do I use Myrrh in a massage oil or how do I use it?

I greatly appreciate any help on this!

Thank you and Best Wishes of the Season to all!
M Ch

Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:24:00 +0000
Subject: Re: hyperthyroidism


No hard feelings intended, but obviously, you didn't understand me!!. I am NOT at all in favor of the YLO organizations claims no matter how many miraculous testimonials or so-called Biblical quotes he comes up with.

I am very happy if your thyroid was 'normalized' by his blend- you were one of the lucky ones. But I still believe what he claims is not only HYPE, but also extremely dangerous and it is only a matter of time before the FDA catches up with him making such ridiculous claims of medical cures for his products.

I formally challenge Gary Young to back up his claims with documented
evidence - not testimonials - before more people get hurt. This product hype hurts all us legitimate therapists and does absolutely nothing to help raise our standing in the medical community in spite of the medical doctors now selling his products (without checking out the facts) just to make a quick MLM buck...


Way to Go Sy..

I too have never heard such gobbledegoop as his organisation puts out.

As I understand it, No one has been able to establish his credentials either from the College he is supposed to have been at, or his status as an ND.

I Would love to be proved wrong in my estimation of the YLO company but as I have been involved in MLMs before I can see that the words he spouts are pure marketing bull......

If anyone on the list can provide replicatable evidence of YLOs claims Then I will be glad to eat my hat, even if I have to go out and buy one especially...
From: S...
To: t...
Subject: Re: hyperthyroidism
Date: Monday, December 16, 1996 8:37 AM

First of all, I don't think it is a good idea to try and treat something this serious without proper medical supervision.

Secondly, the YL information draws very heavily on the French book by Penoel and Franchomme, and they do say myrrh is useful for hyperthyroidism. I find no reference to "decongesting the prostate". HOWEVER neither they (P&F) nor YL give any references at all for the hyperthyroidism claim, or any basis for saying it that I have been able to locate, nor do they give you any recommended uses. They (P&F) are well known for proscribing massive doses, often oral, of sometimes irritant EO and very many oils that have had no formal safety testing-.... It is VERY unlikely that you will get much effect other than relaxation from rubbing a diluted blend of myrrh, or any other combination, onto your skin. Even less by placing a few drops '"on the soles of your feet" as the YL literature often recommends. ...If there were going to be any effect, you would probably have to ingest the oils to affect the thyroid....and this is not recommended.

I am not sure, but...this info may be incorrrectly based on some studies indicating action from the herbal extract(tincture) taken internally which cannot be applied to the oil applied topically. This is another area where a potential dangerous situation could result from someone using a recommended course of treatment by a company professing miraculous cures by '"rubbing a dilute solution of EO on the skin" ...Gimme a break....

Please investigate throughly any company's claims such as these before
any self treatment for such a serious medical condition.


Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:33:45 -0800
Subject: YL ad infinitum

Earth to Jim Lynn!

To state that Sy... has "ranted" is a pile of pure unadulterated bull droppings. She has simply asked for some proof to corroborate the wild and woolly claims made by Mr. Young and his horde of mlmers.

I have checked out the YL literature and find a lot of fantastic claims sprinkled liberally with good old-fashioned bible-thumping.

Your Custer analogy is very appropo here. The egomaniacal Custer was rightfully destroyed because he showed only contempt for his adversaries.

Had he treated them with the respect they deserved, he probably would have stayed at home that fatefull day.

There's a lesson in there somewhere, Jim.


Subject: Re: YL ad infinitum
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 18:45:04 -0600
To: <>

>I have checked out the YL literature and find a lot of fantastic
>claims sprinkled liberally with good old-fashioned bible-thumping.

I am extremely new to aromatherapy and I was flabbergasted by the claims made in the only experience is through the books I've read and this list but anyone with a grain of sense can see that these claims are outrageous! I cannot say that they are totally untrue but it will take more than a short quote by people who may or may not be distributors of YL to win me over! I see nothing but "claims" proof of anything and I agree with the others when stating the dangers involved with something (or someone) like this..

Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 00:08:07 +0000
Subject: Gary Young's Lavender


In addition, my wife and I, including my daughter and her husband will be using Young's raindrop therapy for helping to straighten out the spine. I am not trying to sell Dr. Young's oils on this list, I just want honest feedback. I am only interested in finding authentic, excellent quality oils. I am very familiar with BS just like most of you and will drop Dr. Young's oils if I find lack of integrity.
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 08:52:42 +0000
From: Gra
Subject: Re: Gary Young's Lavender

Hi Daniel

Good to see you made it to the list.

All we want is the Facts <g>

As Far as the Spine is concerned I am afraid that it is a physical thing that only a doctor or maybe manipulative therapies can help. Aromatherapy is VERY unlikely to do anything but make you feel better when having other treatments.


Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 12:21:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Gary Young's Lavender

>I was very surprised to see all the negative stuff about Dr. Young. Actually, the reason I signed up for this >list was to ask the following questions.

a whole lot of the negative stuff comes from two specific causes....
1) many of gary young's associates publicly recommend using the oils in ways that we KNOW can be extraordinarily dangerous.... and
2) because of the impossibility of getting a straight answer from his followers.

I've read about that 'raindrop therapy'..........given what I know of anatomy and physiology,it seems a tad farfetched...however, good luck to you...
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 22:49:24 +0000
Subject: Re: Gary Young's Lavender

Hi Daniel Please note that these comments are not directed at you but The Young Living conmpany.....

>Why don't I just quote from Gary Young's manual...."The Raindrop Therapy (RT) is a method of using Vita Flex,

>reflexology, massage techniques, etc., and essential oils applied on various locations of the body to bring it into >structural and electrical alignment.
Love this . But it means nothing... No proof !

We cannot get any answers out of young living MLM people and cannot verify the status of "Dr" Gary Youngs credentials.

>It has typically been used to help straighten spinal curvatures and to fight against viruses.
Fight Viruses maybe, but straighten spinal curvatures???? Again where is the documented proof? Not.

>It has been discovered that many viruses lie dormant along the spine;
Discovered by whom? At what University, Under what testing regimin?

>including the virus that causes scoliosis. The RT is a mild and
>non-intrusive application of a combination of several techniques that have proven to be effective from a small degree, >to what would appear to be miraculous.
What proofs again...??

>I have never seen it fail,
Who has never seen it fail?

>and have been surprised by many unexpected and fruitful results.
I would be surprised if it worked at all.

>Of course, this cannot be taken to mean that it will always work.
Aha! the get out...

>RT is designed to bring balance to the body with its relaxing and mild application. It will help align the energy
>centers of the body, and release them if blocked - all without using hard pressure and trying to force the body, which >should never be done. The RT is most often used as a foundation to set the stage for any number of therapeutic >applications; for example, a full body massage..... The oils will continue to work in the body for about 5 to 7 days after >the treatment,
In other words you must have lots of treatment and spend lots of money on theie treatment otherwise they have an "out" .. "But you did not do the whole treatment so that is why it did not work"

>with continued re-alignment taking place during this time.... The RT is not a "cure all,", nor a magic bullet.

>A healthy body is the result of a well-rounded program of
>exercise and proper diet.
Good Lord! something sensible :-)

>Health is everything you do, say, hear, see and eat. The RT is a powerful tools to use to help restore a
>balance of good health." End of quote. He has several more pages on how to do the RT and the video also shows in >detail how to do it.
>Any comments? - Da........
My comments are the same as I and others have wanted YL and Gary young to address...
Where are the proofs..????????????

I see it more and more as nothing less than a MLM money making trip than a real attempt at promoting REAL Aromatherapy..
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 15:20:18
To: "D. G. "
Subject: Re: Gary Young's Lavender

D...: Since you asked for comments, I can't help but wonder how anyone could possibly know if the Raindrop Therapy is having an effect. Since you are getting multiple treatments ( as I understand it you receive chiropractic adjustments and massage?), it is virtually impossible to isolate the cause of any improvement you might have. Think about the "experimental method..."

You said you want to straighten out your brain as well as your spine. I would think adopting some "critical thinking" to what people are selling you would be a good place to start (and critical thinking is free!)

I am not at all trying to offend you, D..., and I appreciate your opening yourself up to the list and asking for feedback. I just pains me to see myths spread when there isn't conclusive proof. Best of luck to you in your healing...

Warm regards,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 22:18:14 -0500
Subject: Re: dream catcher blend

Di... wrote:

>YL Dreamcatcher contains sandalwood, tansanea (I hope you know what it is because I don't), and spruce. >I have never used it but I do have some spruce and will try some tonight for fun.

hmmm... don't see anything in that blend that would encourage the remembering of dreams...altho frankincense can encourage dreaming... but I don't remember reading that sandalwood could.

I can find NO reference to "tansanea' in any of my books...either as a latin name, or a 'common name'..would appreciate your tracing it for me... unless it's Tansy...Tanacetum??? that's sometimes mislabled artemesia/mugwort...which IS an herb used in dream pillows..

Odd to see spruce in a sleep blend, as's normally more stimulating...not something I'd use at nite... strange...indeed.

Surprising that it doesn't use any of the oils that you see used in dream pillow herbal mixes, you know?

Di..., I really appreciate your sharing the 'components'...even tho the answer left me more puzzled than before...

Think I stick to the herbal pillow... I know what's in that...and it smells pretty.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 20:54:09 -0800
Subject: Invasion of the pyramid people?

At 19:21 27/12/96 +0000, Dan.. wrote:

>From the tone of your response, it would appear that you are ready to spear me at the first chance you >get. If you had carefully read my posts you would have seen that I did say I did not come on board to sell >Gary Young nor his products.


There is a **very serious problem** on the net with swarms of MLMers invading various news-groups and flooding them with promotional junk (designed to trigger both sales and recruitment). In fact the problem is so serious that many newsgroups have now become worthless as a result of these pyramiders and other floggers of get-rich-quick schemes. If you don't believe me, check out most of the groups. Indeed, you will hardly find any ng not infected by this plague!

I do not want to see this happen to the AT List! We just had another gent from YL waste time and space with questionable claims about his products.

Your posts followed the MLMer's standard operating tactics: flood the group with glowing praise for one company's product. By claiming that YL's EOs could help you deal with a severe spinal problem you were going over the top, Daniel.

Eternal vigilance is the price we must pay if we are to keep the mlm plague from destroying this List.

I asked you earlier if you, or anyone in your family (eg, your daughter) is a YL distributor.

You have not anwered my question.

Is anyone in your family a YL distributor? In fairness, we have a right to know.

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 09:30:31 +0000
Subject: Re: raindrops????

Dian... writes

>Gary Young says in his book "I have been applying oils in therapy
>for over 12 years, and rarely do I dilute them unless doing a full
>body massage.

This is patiently dangerous, Unless GYs oils are already diluted..

>Most of the oils sold in the United States are adulterated in
>one form or another.

They are? Can you provide proof that this is so please Diane?

>Therefore it is safer to dilute oils that are not from Young Living. Even though your supplier may claim >to purchase oils from a credible source in Europe, most European suppliers sell three to four
>different grades of oils.Unless you are buying more than $30,000 worth of oils a month, you cannot >afford to purchase the Grade A quality oils:

This is not true......

I can purchase Top quality, grade A oils, in 10ml quantities at any time I wish from my suppliers, (who are importers and distillers in their own right). No minimum amounts.

>so based on your monthly purchase your supplier will prequalify you
>for what grade they will sell to you. In addtion to the oils that we
>produce, Young Living purchases tens of thousands of dollars in oil
>volume per month. This year (1997) with our current growth rate, we
>will be purchasing over 1 million dollars in oil volume yearly."

No proper supplier will prequalify any purchaser... They will supply what we require, not what they want to sell us.. Otherwise they go out of business because we will go to those who *will* supply us with what we want.

Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 11:05:09 -0500
Subject: Re: raindrops????
Cc: All <>

>No flames please !

not flaming you, Diane, and appreciate your quoting his book so honestly.

the fact that is many of us buy our oils from suppliers who DO purchase the quality oils he says are not available.....

Diane, I suspect you've heard enough on this list to be well aware that many of us here have grave doubts and questions about the information that Young shares in his book. We question both his claims of healing 'miracles', his theories on how the oils work, and, most of all, the safety of some of his uses.

I also am fairly dark skinned....a heavy trace of native american blood mixed in with the scots/irish/english... and I wouldn't dream of using many of the oils in the rainbow therapy undiluted on my skin.

please, dear, be very very careful....I would truly hate to see you come to grief...


Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 11:40:29 -0500
From: Syl
Subject: raindrops???, etc (one more time)

Diane - and I am not attacking you at all and PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS PERSONAL. I realize you are the just messenger and I REALLY appreciate your sharing this information with us. SO this is not toward you, OK?

It is just that I am still just absolutely furious with Gary Young and his statements (aimed particularly to impress you who are into it). I'm in a bad mood already (due to technical difficulties!), so I am going to vent it here.
I just can't let this rest, at least if nothing else, FOR THE BENEFIT FOR ANYONE WHO MAY BE IMPRESSED WITH THE FOLLOWING GY STATEMENTS graciously donated by Diane.

>Now if one of you chemists want to put his oils to the test feel free.

It is NOT at all the quality of the oils in question, though some analysis may prove interesting. It is more the EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AND MISLEADING USES he promotes.

> Being in the network of Young living and knowing people personally that have wonderful testimonies help me have confidence in the oils. His literature makes it clear he does go against the grain and mentions often using oils neet is against the grain of typical aromatherapists. I wouldn't think he would want to put himself in the position of being sued.

It is not important whether he makes any new aromatherapists friends by the uses of undiluted oils as he says " neet is against the grain of typical aromatherapists" - IT IS AGAINST THE GRAIN OF ETHICAL USE. It is extremely dangerous to go around putting undiluted oils on people (especially the ones in his blends such as thyme or cinnamon bark) and ridiculous to put them on eyelids and into the ear. And the first time one of you gets sued, MAYBE YOU WILL REALIZE WHAT YOU ARE PROMOTING.

>I wouldn't think he would want to put himself in the position of being sued.

He is not putting himself in that place, he is not the one to be sued. YOU ARE if you were to injure someone by using something recognised (by RIFM, IFRA) as a proven Irritant, sensitizer etc, especially in the case of eyelids and into ears. Think about it. If he doesn't care enough to tell you about it (or perhaps he doesn't know) then you should care enough about it to find out. A few raving testimonials cannot compare to the thousands used in proper testing for safety.

>> In my December newsletter it was stated that the first phase of YELO 's antimicrbial research at W.S. University has been completed and will soon be published. I guess we'll have to wait to see what it has to say.

We know what its going to say: that YL oils have shown activity against all sorts of bugs in dishes in a culture medium. Well SO HAS EVERYONE ELSE'S !!!

WE ALREADY know the antimicrobial properties of the oils contained within his blends. THIS HAS BEEN WIDELY DOCUMENTED for MANY years now, and it is the most widely documented of uses of ANY essential oils. So what's the big deal on that, why is he reinventing the wheel?. Who is he trying to impress? (YOU). I'm certainly not impressed. I already knew that. Why doesn't he just do some useful scientific research? I still don't get it.

I don't expect any answer here, and I certainly don't want to start up the flames again (we CAN keep this discussion peaceful!), but I couldn't let this go by.

Thanks for letting me blow off steam. I feel better. :-)

Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 10:47:12 -0800
Subject: Re: raindrops????

At 23:53 03/01/97 -0800, you wrote:

>Unless you are buying more than $30,000 worth of oils a month, you cannot afford to purchase the >Grade A quality oils: so based on your monthly purchase your supplier will prequalify you for what grade
>they will sell to you.


I get that you mean well...but who ever told you the above has lied to you. This is simply not true. You can buy the best EOs in any amount.

I hope that you are listening to the good folks here. If you are, you will learn a lot.

Subject: Re: raindrops????
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 20:40:28 GMT

On Sat, 04 Jan 1997 11:15:23 -0800, you wrote:

Hi Diane,

>100% pure Grade A Essential Oils for Aromatherapy Distilled with low >pressure and low temperature (for topical use only)

Ah! Here is the key. First of all, there is no such thing as "grade A", and the mention "for Aromatherapy use".

So, GY could, rightfully claim that all "grade A oils", used "for aromatherapy" are made up of a botanical, fragrance, or anything you wish diluted in a carrier, of which your guess is as good as mine.


Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:30:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Young Living

>As a "Newbie" I missed the stuff on GY. However, I have a good friend who is an herbalist who gave me >his book and suggested I might want to use his oils if they are so much better than everyone elses,
>as they are so much better than everyone elses??

I have seen so many YL distributors say that...that they are the only ones selling quality essential oils...

and yet none of them are ever willing to allow their oils to be analyzed by an independent observer...

I would be very strongly tempted to ask your herbalist friend what other essential oils she has experienced?
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 01:29:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Young Living

>I have offered numerous times to perform free analyses on YL oils to various people but could not get >any of them to send me a sample. I have afeeling that the oils are not a pure as they claim

I think that is fabulous to offer that...but before you even go THAT far....let's get the basics out of the way in regards to to why he doesn't backup claims or share all this glorious research....or the claims made over and over by YL that these oils CURE cancer and AIDS...and the crazy Raindrop Therapy....all those things are warning signs before you even get to EO analysis! Being that it is an MLM is whole other area...everyone has their personal opinions separately about MLM's.....but the other stuff bothers me...the "cult" like "appearance" of YL....

My advice to your in-law....if you are interested in AT...don't become ANYONE's "disciple" EO's from all sources....don't just read YL's brochures and listen to their tapes....there are people who have been around alot longer than GY and are more "authorities" to listen to!

This is my personal opinion only....and my 5 cents as usual!

Date: 4/23/96
I am familiar with careful...I have heard..from many clients of his classes nationwide...and they do make outrageous(cures cancer and aids!!) claims...and have some new "drop" which they drop certain essential oils..pure strength... on the body..on certain meridians.until some reaction occurs?? that is what a client passed on to me...oils like Birch!! which is quite strong....I don't agree with most of what I am hearing...and anyone who says that you should read NOONE else's books but his own...maybe is akin to(can we say...brainwashing??!!) what hooey...afraid of people finding out that he might be doing something...dangerous??!! come all these people BEFORE him are wrong..and his book is the only true word of aromatherapy???

Legend in his OWN mind?? plenty of other research out there...I am open to hear ALL of it...but I think this is not good for our industry...these claims could close us down one day!

Can we spell.....David Koresh, boys and girls?? Caveat Emptor!!!

IMHO only!!!


Subject: Re: EO's and metabolism?

Dear Pat:

We agree with you that things are getting out of control, which is why we are adamantly supporting national certification. I have one patient who was taking some very toxic baths with huge amounts of eo's that may or may not have directly caused liver damage he sustained. (I of course send him out to an MD, who I worked with in resolving the problem). I think that we need to be careful not to step on anyone's toes, there is the issue of free speech and free press. However, when it starts affecting the industry as a whole and especially practicioners, there comes a time when people need to put their feet down and try to stop irresponsibility, especially in a type of practice which is not "legal" yet. I would love to see some debate on this list about certification issues and responsible practice of aromatherapy in the US.

Subject: Re: EO's and metabolism?

Yes, I've heard Gary Young speak about his research and I'm not as impressed as you. For example he compared the antibacterial properties of some oils vs. penicillin against gram negative bacteria. Penicillin isn't used to treat gram negative infections because it's not effective there; so what's his point? He does recommend excessive amounts of oil applied directly to the skin. He doesn't give credit to other acknowledged aromatherapists and discourages reading other books, yet his own recent book I wouldn't recommend to anyone. He's clearly in a MLM program and thus his oils are overpriced.

I'm not saying his oils aren't good quality (I can't determine that), but good quality oils are available elsewhere for a lot less money.

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:11:23 +0000

Dear Patty,

Madagascar is probably not a good example. There are numerous producers of Oils in Madagascar. We travel there regularly, and none of the Essential Oil suppliers have ever heard of Gary Young or his company. If you examine the Export Documentation, he does not appear as an exporter, and I would even hazard a guess and say he has never visited the country.So much for travelling the world to buy his Oils?????

If you are claiming to sell a pure product, you must have it authenticated by a reputable third party establishment, or at least have the knowledge and ability to evaluate the product yourself before making grossly inaccurate claims about the product.

Even the scenario you suggest does not allow for the presence of 20 per cent Dipropylene Glycol. This is a blatant chemical / synthetic addition.

I am curious.....This Gary Young has never responded to any questions or articles raised in this or any other Newsgroup. His MLM Agents sing the guys praises, but he will not appear or 'put his head on the block'.

Therefore I am sceptical of his ability, professionalism, knowledge,attitude, etc.

Ultimately, the F.D.A. will have to get involved, if they are not involved already!!!

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 15:30:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Jasmine

Hi John! Thanks for your response....I only used Madagascar as an example being it's tiny compared to say France....

I am in no way defending are right they need to stand up to their do all companies...and expecially Gary Young..since he won't even show his face or share his alleged research everyone always talks about...

Whether they knew about the DPG addition to their Jasmine..we don't know...but the "steam distilled" part bothers me just as much! And yes...they should test if their are to claim purity

oh well....we are talking about YLO and we all are still talking in frustrated circles...we know we will never get the answers to our questions....but if all this discussion at least alerts people who are sucked into his story to question it...that is a start!

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 08:31:38 +0000
Subject: Re: Jasmine/Young

In message <>,
> I have a friend that really likes Young oils. I know that an
>analysis was done on the jasmine. i can't believe what i think were
>the results, so will you spell it out for me. Are you saying the
>product which is suppose to be high quality eo is really a bunch of
>Ka... from Los Angeles
What he was saying was that 20% of the oil from a customer of YL was DPG which is a chemical not found in the plant, or the process of obtaining the oil.

Not only that, but as Dr. P pointed out, important components typically found in jasmine absolute in small but significant quantities are missing - such as cis-jasmone and methyl jasmonate - not to mention the fact that the oil is sold as 100% pure "steam distilled" jasmine. Due to the fragility of the flowers, Jasmine is solvent extracted, producing an "absolute". Athough Lawrence does mention comparisions of an analysis by Shrinivas (1986) of the absolute and a "steam distilled oil of jasmin." the jasmine on the commercial market is an absolute. In this comparision, the typical components mentioned earlier were also missing in the distilled oil, but the other chemical ratios were significantly different showing no similarity to the Young/Jasmine oil in question. In addition, as I had a chance to 'see' this jasmine before analysis, it was coincidentally clear instead of the usual dark color. Go figure.

Gra & Syl
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:06:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Jazzmen

RE: Crabby? Well, I am a cancer and I will be the one that gets crabby if I find out there is synthetics in Young's Oils, especially since he goes on and on about how pure they are. For me, the synthetics cause headaches, etc., which is why I can't wear perfume. I am fairly new at this, but all I hear is how these oils are suppose to be pure, pure and more pure. So if people are adding synthetics they are not pure, and I might as well be sniffing perfume.


To: <>
Subject: Re: Jazzmen
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:32:14 -0500

> What seemed very striking in the analysis that Dr Pa posted for us
>was a rather high percentage of a synthetic, manmade chemical which
>(if my understanding is correct) is fairly commonly used to "extend" fragrance materials

Not only this but what about hydroxycitronellal and amyl cinnamic aldehyde.
I know of no plants that produce these molecules and if anyone out there does know of any natural sources of these I would appreciate the information.

Dr. P

Thanks for the clarification, Sy.... I'd just add this one other point.

All of the books I've seen from the beginning say that Jasmine EO is either unknown or not on the market. Therefore, anyone being offered this product would have to be really ignorant not to be suspicious. If the YL people bought "steam distilled Jasmine EO" without proof that this was the real thing, they are very odd business people. They keep telling us how knowledgeable GY is, so I have to assume he knows as much as the beginner aromatherapy books to which I refer above. So, either he knew he was buying and selling a product that was mislabelled (this woulld constitute fraud), or he is gullible enough himself to believe the conmen who sold it to him and stupid enough not to bother to test it. The man and the company can't come out of this looking very good, no matter how one interprets it. Either they are stupid, ignorant while they claim to be knowledgeable, or knowingly conducting their business in a fraudulent manner. Take your pick!


Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 19:16:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Jasmine

Frankly, this is a gross over-reaction to something most folks have suspected for a very long time. While I enjoy this list I am starting to find this never-ending discussion on The Essential Oil Pyramid Company (or "mlm", call it what you will) a bit stale. People who join these things are lured by the fast buck, get-something-for-nothing message blasted out by the sponsoring pyramid companies. Has there ever been a pyramid company which hasn't sold over-priced, bad quality products? No.

Over the past few months I have watched a number of distributors for the EOPC come to this list and post claims about their products which only the certifiably insane would believe. Recall the odd fellow who talked last Xmas of curvature of the spine being healed by his "raindrop therapy". When asked for evidence he could only sink into a paranoidal rage accusing people of threatening him, etc.

I want to thank Dr. P for sharing the results of his analysis. However, as I said before, there were no real surprises in it at all.


Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 21:32:24 -0500 (EST)

At 08:52 PM 2/22/97 -0500, you wrote:

>This mail list is a resource for many, a peer discussion for some,
>and part of the learning process for others. I've been on the mail
>list for more than a couple of months. I've seen people *blasted*
>for asking a question - seen them accused of using 'under thetable'
>methods of selling MLMs.


And they were blasted rightfully! You are speaking of the two gents (Martin and Panchez?) here last Xmas who made all sorts of ludicrous claims about GY products and their magical properties. When confronted, both exhibited extreme paranoidial behaviour. Instead of responding to requests for evidence both started accusing the list members of persecuting them. One even started making totally false allegations that he and his family were being threatened. In the end. I felt very sorry for them and their families. I have never seen such a sorry response to simple honest requests for data to back up claims.

No one gets attacked for asking questions about claims. You have misunderstood me. However, people who come here claiming that their eos can cure everything from acne to cancer will be challenged for evidence.

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 18:26:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Young Living Oils

At 09:11 PM 2/19/97 -0500, you wrote:

>I must also tell everyone that I received a call from YLO today and they were very concerned about this. >They said they wanted me to send them a copy of the analysis so they could confront their
>supplier with the information. According to the person that I spoke with they were totally ignorant to any >adulteration. I sent the analysis and so we will see what happens next.
>Dr. P

Confront their supplier? That's odd. I thought Gary grew his own crops.

Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 21:08:09 -0600
Subject: Re: Young Living Oils

>Confront their supplier? That's odd. I thought Gary grew his own crops.

yes...according to the recent spam that some folks received:

>>The plants are organically grown in chemical-free soil

oh well.
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 23:19:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: GY/YL Spam

At 03:45 PM 2/23/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Hey, did anyone else just get a copy of this spam? I have never seen the sender's adddress before, and I >certainly wouldn't touch this company with a 10-foot pole.
>It takes real cheek to spam an AT List member considering the latest
>revelations about GY.

>(Spammer's id deleted to protect privacy)

Lord-a-mercy, Peter, why bother? They obviously want to hear from us all!!!!

>> have the highest oxygenating molecules (natural antioxidants) known >>to man...


>> have the highest electrical frequency of any natural substance known to man.....


>>create an environment where bacteria, virus, parasites and fungus
>>cannot live.......

As do ALL Essential Oils in the appropriate dosages of the appropriate EO

>>break down and penetrate thickened cell walls and actually remove
>>toxic build up penetrate cell walls and carry nutrients as well as oxygen into the cells...............

I sure hope they don't "break down" cell walls. Can you imagine what this would be like? Think of one of those movies about killer viruses that "dissolve" those infected with them. I want to keep my cell walls. I like my protoplasm properly packaged.

As for the 2nd part of this. I don't know about GY, but I've got blood in my body. It is specially adapted to the job of carrying nutrients and oxygen. I like my EOs where I want them, but my blood can do its job just fine, thank you.

>>are wonderfully fragrant & can be used for
>>massage,perfume,bath oil, meditation, air freshener,
>>cleaning solution & much more...

So, they also smell? How surprising! I wouldn't have guessed.

>>We would to offer you this opportunity to purchase YOUNG LIVING
>>ESSENTIAL OILS, vitamins,cosmetics and other products at wholesale cost. Not only do you >>receivefabulous YOUNG LIVING PRODUCTS at the lowest possible prices,but you can become part >>of a lucrative network marketing plan

Opportunity gladly rejected.

>>Essential oils are the aromatic, nutrient-rich liquid essence that is Nutrient rich..

"Nutrient rich"????? What does he cut them with? Vit C????

>>painstakingly steam distilled (and in a few cases
>>cold pressed) from the flowers, leaves, resin and roots of
>>plants.Essential oils are the "blood" of the plant,

Paracelsus (who gave them the name "essential oils") thought that, but he lived a long time ago and although a lot of what he thought is interesting, quite a bit of it has not stood the test of time. Now many people regard sap as more analogous to blood. Most just recognize that plants are so different from mammals that no very good analogies exist.

>>transporting oxygen, nutrients, vitamins, minerals and enzymes
>>throughout the plant.Placed on your feet, essential
>>oils and their healing elements will enter your bloodstream and
>>saturate every cell of your body in about twenty minutes

That again. It just doesn't prove to be so in any tests that have been done. One thing however, put some EO on your feet and in less than 20 min the heat from your body will have diffused the EO into the air where you can and will inhale it. I would like to see the results of any test that show ANY method of using an EO to "saturate every cell of your body in about twenty minutes". EVERY cell. Do these people have any notion how many cells they are talking about??

>>Another effective method to use these oils is with an aromatherapy
>>lamp diffuser, in which the heat will vaporize the oil into the atmosphere.

Son of a gun. I'd have never guessed heat might vaporize a volatile oil.

>>The plants are organically grown in chemical-free soil. They are
>>processed with low temperature and low pressure
>>so the volatile elements of the oils are not lost or destroyed,

A good many distillers follow the same practices, including all of the more reputable ones distillling EOs specifically for aromatherapy.

>>as so often happens in the lower grade manufacturing
>>process. YOUNG LIVING ESSENTIAL OILS are the finest oils on the
>>market today-100%PURE GRADE A OILS

Well, as Dr P has shown us, that ain't necessarily so.

>>To become a YOUNG LIVING distributer, your only obligation is to
>>purchase $50 per month worth of oils, cosmetics vitamins ect. You
>>are free to cancel at anytime. YOUNG LIVING is a netwok marketing
>>company. You get a check each month for 10% of the purchases made by
>>those directly signed under you, 5% of purchases under them. 10% of the next level, and 5% of the >>next. You receive a higher % when someone first signs up as well as discounts on your own purchases >>and other benefits based upon your achievement level.

Now let me figure this. Say I have 4 levels above me, just a poor ordinary person. I buy an EO for $20. $1 goes to the person above me. $2 to the next layer up (or is it $3, 5% plus 10%?). $1 to the next (or $4 ???) $2 to the next (or $6 ????). So, it is at least $6 to those above. Maybe $14.

Then there must be some markup, no business pays its overhead on 10%, not to mention 5%, except possibly for some distributors who maintain warehouses and small staffs and have large minimum orders to trade. So, actually what did my immediate supplier pay for this EO?

In the regular course of things, I would buy an EO for $10-$12 and sell it for $20. I would get all of the difference to pay the rent, the utilities (electricity, water, telephone, etc), my employees, the insurance (fire, theft, health for my employees, etc), the taxes, the cost of store equipment (shelves, cash register, samples so you can smell the EOs, etc), the advertising (so you know my store exists and where it is and what I sell), my own salary (I gotta eat, too!), continuing education for me and my employees (so we know what's what and don't mislead you), upkeep (gotta keep it clean and purdy so you enjoy the experience), and other stuff of that kind. If I do any repackaging, I have to pay for the containers, labels, tests of EOs, and any labor involved. I will also hope to make some extra so I can expand and get new and interesting stock for your pleasure. If I had to lay out 30% or more of the price of goods to other people's pockets, I would have to raise my price to you. And you would be the one getting ripped off. BTW, I just chose the $20 number at random. Lots of EOs in little bottles would cost a lot less, others more.

Personally, I would try to stick with the 60-40 split, 60% of the retail cost is what I pay for the product wholesale. 40% is my share. That is a very standard division in lots of fields, books for instance. In areas more subject to fashion, or theft, or damage, or needing more sales assistqance (employee cost), or in places where the rent is very high or the cost of labor unusually high, the mark-up will be higher. No gift shop ever buys anything they don't think will sell at double the price they pay for it (not if they want to stay in business). Fine jewelry (gold) is "triple keystone" or having a suggested retail of 3 times wholesale. Costume jewelry can be sold at 10 times the wholesale, or more!!!!

This analysis is presented for those who are ignorant of business realities or are too naive to detect the bullsh-t. GY is making lots of money. Some others high in the pyramid are also. Lots of people on the lower rungs are getting ripped off. Some in between are hanging on, not making anywhere near what they expected. And from the info I have received so far, it looks very much like the EOs are not very good. -------Jo
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 11:19:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: GY/YL

In a message dated 97-03-09 01:08:24 EST

>GY clearly states that his Jasmine oil is solvent extracted.

But it is also adulturated! If it was solvent extracted, there would still be the chemicals normally found in Jasmine - they were not there! DPG was - 20%. That isn't a residue of solvent extraction - its a filler! Maybe even used instead of a natural base oil. But the product was not being sold as a blend, even from what you say was said on your video.

Even if GY's EOs were the finest on the planet - GY is training salespeople, telling patients/customers, & selling methods that are not only inaccurate, ineffective ( drops of EO on back to correct curvature of the spine for example ), but dangerous ( use of EOs undiluted on the skin, during pregnancy, and even use of EO in the EYE! ).

He also professes to be a member of professional aromatherapy associations that have never had him as a member. Telling lies to appear more qualified than he is. The problem with addressing these issues here, on a mail list, is that there is no one from his *organization* is willing to participate.
Salespeople willing to defend this business are gullible, misinformed people ill prepared to use essential oils much less sell them to other even less informed potential customers. Its about money, not healing.

I recently received a letter from a representative of another company that has been discussed recently. She is more than willing to address any concerns and misconceptions regarding her company's EOs. She is now a member of the mail list, and I anticipate this as an opportunity to hear * both sides *.

I disagree with the members that are tired of this subject and don't even want the mention made of it on this mail list. New members join every day, and this is a wonderful resource. Perhaps as a courtesy, those following this *thread* can add the initials GY/YL in the subject so those tired of the subject, or angered by the subject can delete the letters without reading them. Sue
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:10:54 EST

I was introduced to Essential Oils through Young Living, but it didn't take long to begin to see that some of what Young was teaching was quite extreme (to put it politely). That he warns his followers to only read a few authors' books bothered me, also.

Then I ordered some Orange Oil. The label says that it is steam distilled under low heat and low pressure. Everything that I have read and heard says that citrus oils are cold pressed. Their Lemon Oil is labelled the same way.

I agree that YL is cult-like. The people who are being sought out are those who are sick and/or have lost faith in conventional medicine and are searching for another way. In other words, the desperate and the ignorant. That's a ready made pool of suckers for the snake oil salesman!

I'm just glad that I found this list. The information on everybody's web sites is an education in itself. Someday I hope to be able to take some formal courses, but in the meantime, I will keep the local librarian and my favorite book store busy.

Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 07:36:41 +0000
Subject: Re: Valor

Rox wrote:
> Has anyone knowledge on an oil called Valor?....leading up to question 2) as this is an ingredient in a technique I learned called Raindrop therapy which sounds very similiar to Rainbow> therapy, alledgedly moving the spine. I learned this formula in an aromatherapy massage class that I attended. Yes, the spine did shift slightly....but, as a massage therapist I know this is possible just from the massage, I haven't run out to try to obtain this Valor from that teacher. But....could Valor be a > YL oil, since I haven't seen it anywhere else????
Hi Rox and Other Gentlepeople,

I would guess that Valor is a blend. YL does sell blends with names like Inner Peace, Prosperity, Happiness - why not Valor?

Ah! Yes, here it is! In some literature someone sent me a couple of years ago (against my will, folks! I am *not* endorsing anything!) I find:

"Valor (63): Blue chamomile, Spruce, Rosewood. Used by Egyptian pharaohs in Roman times to overcome fear and opposition, builds courage, confidence and self-esteem when going into battle, increases skeletal stability ... "
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997
Subject: Re:White Lotus / Snake Oil?

We are a US based company. We bottle and market essential oils (160+) from around the world. I found out in the Gary Young List, an Essential Oil called "White Lotus", from Egypt.

Being originally from Egypt, I have asked our suppliers over there to find it for us. Egypt is a small country and the producers of Essential Oils know each other. However, they were not able to find anybody producing White Lotus EO. I have tried three times and insisted that my sources would try harder in finding it. Each attempt failed.

What I was repeatdly told however is "White Lotus" is the name perfume/fragrance manufacturers use in Egypt as a catch 22 name. Several stores would have the so called "White Lotus", but they are all different blends/perfumes made by different manufacturers. None of them has any "White Lotus" oil in it. It is just a name. It's good for tourism!

We actually purchased a couple of these so called "White Lotus" EO from Young Living and it does smell like perfume. However, we did not make any analysis to really find out, maybe we should. We do not know of any other essential oil company that carries White Lotus. If you know of any, please let us know. We are always looking for new and authenic oils. We do not carry blends. We leave that to individual practioners to blend as they see fit.

As to the claim of high frequency, I have heard of instruments that can claim to measure this. I do not think the scientific community would agree and would tell you that this is impossible and fraudulent. From an intuitive point of view which cannot be measured, I find that all essential oils carry a high vibration. There may be something to the claim that organic or wild oils are better in that their frequency is higher. I do not know how to measure this, but it is a "feeling" you get when using them. We would never claim to have higher vibrational oils as we believe all essential oils unless old or comtaminated have high frequency. I believe the "high frequency" experience of the oils is personal and best left to users as to their preference. Using the oils can lead to spiritual experiences and again I believe that depends on the user and his beliefs. I have heard of people praying over their oils and they believe that this improves them.
Best Regards.

Dr. Na

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 16:31:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Young Living

Jac wrote:

> RE: White Lotus (Nymphaea Lotus). As a distributor for YL, I asked
> what the story was behind this oil. This particular oil is one that is not produced by YL but is contracted >out to be produced specifically for YL according to their standards. It is apparently
> an exclusive contract at this time which is why you have had a hard time tracking down other sources.
I have received a response to my earlier comment about White Lotus from a Dr. Chemist who did analyze the YL White Lotus. And I am quoting his message to me:

>"I did anayze a sample of YL's White Lotus and I can tell you that according to the GC/MS results that >this product (at least the one I received) is a definite fragrace compound with very high amounts of DPG >(a common fragrance diluent) and other synthetic chemicals"

So, why is it that the three phase test procedure, based on YL specs, did not indicate the discrepancy?
Tuesday, May 20, 1997 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Young Living Oils

Hello Helen,

Welcome to the list. We have obtained information regarding the results of independent testing for two of YL (Young Living) oils.....his Jasmine and so called White Lotus. I don't know if we need to test further. It is not only EO purity that we are concerned with. Gary Young claims credentials that are not verifiable; he recommends using essential oils in a manner that most aromatherapists consider to be dangerous or possibly harmful and he refuses to participate in an open manner in the aromatherapy community, either on this list or in emerging national organizations. If you are interested in the details, I can forward you the relevant posts.

They are not organized in any way and there are a lot of them, so be warned if you decide to look them over; it will fill your mailbox.

Tell us more about the EOTA. Thanks.

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 14:26:42 +0000
Subject: YL

I believe that the discussion on "frequencies" is separate from the discussion on Gary Young and his claims on "pure" oils.
Sure GY has used the "frequency" issue to speak of his oils. (Great marketing ploy) However, it was Dr. Royal Rife who did some of the first great research on disease and frequency in the 30's, not GY.
The YL issue has been discussed on this list over & over, you wont find many fans here.
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 14:47:14 -0500
Subject: Re: White Lotus / Snake Oil?


You sound like a deep felt person. I like that. Many other people are also good intentioned when it comes to frequencies and good work that come from the oils. The only point I think Michael was making is that there is not much essential oil if any in lotus plants or lotus flowers.

Think about it. Egypt is a desert country and lotus grows in water. I do not think much lotus grows in Egypt. I think that is all Michael is trying to say. I did not read any jab to those of us who like to experience the oils on a very etheric level. We need to be careful about what oils we use and if we have any doubt, we need not use those oils until we are sure. I was a Gary Young distributor. I no longer sell or distribute his oils. I have too much doubt. Some of his oils I think are just fine, but because of the oils in question, I am refraining because it is my reputation as well and when I sell an oil, I want to stand behind it 100%. You are not going to find a more spiritual person than I am. Just ask Mike, my husband? Being spiritual or believing in frequencies or the healing of music or flutes does not preclude my doubting or questioning. This can exist in an atmosphere of trust and spiritual delight. Whether you choose to buy or sell the Young Oils is up to you. I am not. I will not stand in the way of anyone who does. It is your choice. I have made mine.


At 01:10 PM 5/20/97 -0500, J. B.wrote:
>Maybe I have missed something along the way.
>Granted, there have been problems with 2 of YL's oils -- which have
>been addressed and rectified by YL.

Isn't it curious that the results of the only two that we have test results for came back with adulturation? Isn't this what's called batting 1,000? this, of course, doesn't necessarily mean that all his oils are adulturated. He professes to have the ONLY pure essential oils, however, and these tests have proven him wrong.

>RE: "Gary Young claims credentials that are not verifiable" just
>exactly what credentials are being referred to?

I am referring to his claim of being a doctor of naturopathy. We (I personally) contacted the recognized schools that offer a degree in naturopathy and he is not a graduate of any in the US. We have asked him (through his distributors-he refuses to talk to us directly) to verify this and please tell us where he went to school and when his degree was obtained. He has not responded, either himself or through his followers.

What conclusion do you draw here? I do not insist that this credential is a prerequisite to practicing aromatherapy or selling essential oils, however, I think some of us have grave concerns about his honesty. If you have proof of this credential, please share it with us and put this part of our question to rest.

>Has it occurred to any one that maybe, since he is a licensed Dr. of
>Naturopathy and is involved in various studies with other experts
>from various fields that he may be aware of something that we are not!

What studies and what other experts? You are now beginning to sound just like his other distributors who take what he says as gospel and don't question or verify the validity of his statements. In an early brochure, he mentioned studies at Nevada State University. This collaboration was also unverifiable through proper channels.
A quote from an supporter of YL:

"Let me start by answering the original question, who is "this guy". Dr.Gary Young, the president of Young Living Essential Oils, has a master's degree in Nutrition and a Doctorate in Naturopathy. Before starting Young Living, he had a family practice in Chula Vista, CA and ran a research clinic in Mexico, where he started research in the areas of natural healing. In 1985, he received the Humanitarian Award from the State Medical Examiner's Office of Baja California (one of only six ever awarded), for his research and successful treatment of degenerative disease. It was during this time that Dr. Young became excited about the results he was seeing in treating patients. Dr. Young has traveled extensively in Europe, the Middle East and Egypt and has studied there with leading authorities. He has also taught classes in these locations and will be teaching a class in Turkey, I believe, this summer. He is considered to be a leading authority on
essential oils".

I worked in the nonprofit sector for over 25 years, and I have never heard of a State Medical Examiner's Office giving Humanitarian Awards. It is highly unusual for this to be one of their mandates. The State Medical Examiner in the state of California would be based in Sacramento, not Baja.
Where did he study nutrition? Do you see how conveniently he doesn't name these so called experts that he collaborates with?

What database or doctor's advice do you use to confirm the appropriateness of applying essential oils (other than tea tree or lavender) neat to the skin? This is the practice that some of us are the most concerned with. Does Gary Young ever use the word "sensitization" in his literature?

>He is actively involved with the FDA and making sure that their idea >of regulating this industry is done in the proper manner for all concerned.

What do you mean "actively involved with the FDA"? With whom at the FDA?
I am actively involved with the FDA insomuch as their governing of my product disclaimers, etc. I maintain the proper contact and communication with them. The FDA regulation (nonexistent) in this industry at this point is just fine with me....probably with most of us. What does he mean......"in a proper manner for all concerned"????? What gives him the idea that he can speak for everyone in the industry? Especially when he maintains exclusivity from his peers. Doesn't this smack of pomposity to you? And if all of his practices were to be regulated by any governing body, heaven help us all.

>The list goes on but this is enough to make a point.

I don't think you've made any clear points with least not anything I can sink my teeth into that really answers any of the questions I have.

The impurity of his oils was really an aside to most of the discussion here. I, personally, am bothered that he has had so much flack from this list and yet he remains an enigma. If I were aware that a large group of people (especially peers) were this concerned about me, I would attempt to clarify and justify my position with those peers. His reluctance or refusal to do this only fuels my distrust.

And, there has been exhaustive discussion about essential oil purity in general on this list, so don't jump to the conclusion that we are not attempting to look at the whole picture, albeit in sound bites here and there.

I think I am trying to play fair here, Jac... Ask Gary Young to come play at all.

Subject: Re: Young Living
Date: Tue, 20 May 97 22:16:35 GMT

> Ask her WHERE he got his Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine Degree? No one here has been able to >find out. My ND went to Bastyr - and learned NOTHING about aromatherapy there.....what Naturopathic
>Medical School teaches Aromatherapy??
> Next, his claims of membership in various aromatherapy
>associations....we had a letter here from a board member of one of
>the associations he claimed to be a member of...they had never heard >of him.
> Also, some of his recommendations amount to the "follower" practicing medicine without a license - >after all - he has the ND after his name, whether it is from attending medical school or from a mail order >school in the back of a magazine - she does not - and SHE would be the one putting her clients in danger >by following his practices!
> MHO,
> Sue
Hmmmm, perhaps a correspondence course from Clayton School which has ads in the back of many holistic magazines. They actually offer some basic aromatherapy courses as electives in their ND program. I know someone who went through the program. It cannot be compared in any way with Bastyr or the ND colleges in Oregon and Arizona, but you get to call yourself an ND after you complete it.

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 01:03:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: White Lotus / Snake Oil?

> Re: my comments about the flute music. I was only pointing out that
> frequencies affect us in many ways. Just another avenue for looking > into all of the possibilities!

I have studied energy healing and the like but I think its a *little* ridiculous to advertise that one brand of oils has a higher vibration than another? - Im kinda disgusted that someone would use spirituality that way.

> As for my selling the oils. I am strictly working with
> professionals, not selling to the general public. My interest lies
> in getting the doctors, physical therapists, nurses, to take a look at the scientific

and what MD, PT, or RN prgram has courses in aromatherapy? Just because someone is trained in one area of medicine/healthcare doesnt mean they are proficient in all - just as I wouldnt have an EO chemist operate on me:) If you are distributing to these people I hope they know more about aromatherapy than what is given out in the yl brochures

> evidence so far and take it one step further. Quite honestly, money has nothing to do with my interest in >eo's. My income comes from medical

if it isnt the income why not direct them towards a high quality distributor and school/course where they can *learn* how to use the oils safely?

Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:57:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Group "Mission"

Dear Group Members:

All the discussion about Gary Young and Y/L products has given me reason to pause and consider why this subject has sparked so many varying responses.
I hope you will take the time to consider some of my observations:

1. What is the real concern we are expressing?
2. What is the "mission" of this list and are we expanding the mission into the area of industry advocacy?

It appears that many members are tired of reading the posts re: Y/L, Gary Young's credentialing, etc. But it is my feeling that what is really being expressed here is a genuine concern re: how products (and claims re: products) are affecting the public perception of AT -- its "practitioners" (to use the word broadly) and the efficacy of the products themselves. If this is really what the discussion is all about, then shouldn't we attempt to really define those concerns and how they can be addressed industry-wide?

My other thought is that I understood this group to be a forum for sharing ideas, new products, terminology, research studies, etc. If the "mission" of the group is shifting towards industry advocacy and "watch-dogging" -- on issues wh/ range f/ FDA regs, product purity, to credentialing -- shouldn't we clearly have this decided b/n the Owner of the list and the members? I am not taking a position on this one way or the other -- I just think things have shifted a bit f/ the original purpose and intent of the list -- which may be a natural progression and one wh/ is needed -- but I think this needs to be clarified and understood by the members who subscribe. I enjoy reading all the posts, regardless of subject matter, so please understand that I am not in any way proposing that the discussions have been inappropriate. It just appears to me that the topics and nature of the discussions have expanded towards including more "professionalism" concerns. Perhaps this is what the list was developed for initially and I just am ignorant regarding the history of the list.

Also, I continue to see concern expressed re: "slanderous comments" re: product claims and credentialing, but according to my libel manual, there is nothing libelous about discussing such matters, as long as we are dealing w/ facts and not innuendo wh/ we are deliberately misrepresenting as facts.

I have no AT credentials; I am a writer. And, being relatively new to this group, I do not have knowledge of the long history wh/ "older" members have shared re: topics wh/ have been posted. My intent is only to understand the deeper concerns wh/ seem to be floating around in our discussions -- and to encourage further discussion, if members feel it is appropriate.

Blessings to all,
> Newsgroups: alt.aromatherapy
> Subject: Skin irritation
> Date: 22 May 1997 04:13
> My wife recently got interested in essential oils, and ended up purchasing a set of Young Living oils. >(And yes, I've looked through the DejaNews archives, I know the reputation of YL with many folks here. >Bear with me.)
> Anyway. One of the wundercures attributed to the oils was the reputed ability to help the body dissolve >lipomas -- small sacs of fat that some people collect in varioius parts of their bodies.
> I have a number of these, including a large one (~ 3cm x 4cm x 1cm thick) on my forearm.

> The YL rep told my wife that a drop of Lemon oil, applied *directly* to the skin twice a day, would help >dissolve the lipoma.
> I figured what the heck, let's give it a try. Since I tried it on my largest lipoma, I used 2-3 drops to cover >the whole area well.

>After about 2-3 weeks I noticed a bit of itching and a few bumps that I assumed were clogged pores or >something. Within another 4-5 days this had spread into a full-fledged rash, with bumps, redness,
> itching, etc.
> I stopped applying the oil. The YL rep suggested that the oil was "forcing more oxygen into the cells," >thereby causing the body to detox through the skin somehow, and that increased water intake
> might be helpful. I had been pretty dehydrated lately anyway, due to a cold I was fighting, so I stepped up >my water intake.
> That was over 2 weeks ago. The bumps are going down, but the skin is still very red -- in an area over 6" >long, as much as 2" from where I applied the oil. It seems to have spread since I stopped applying the oil. >It still itches quite a bit.
> Should I be worried? Have I just irritated the skin and it's taking a while for the irritation to work out? Or >could there be something more serious going on here? Is there anything I can do to help the
> redness and itching go away?
> Email replies are preferred -- this group isn't carried on the system I normally use, and it's sort of hard >for me to get here to read it.
> Thanks,
> Ga
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:12:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: The Awful Truth about MLM

In a message dated 97-05-22 02:46:40 EDT, you write:

<< I respect the aromatherapy training he's had >>


No one has been able to prove he has ANY training!

All attempts to verify his credentials have proven unsuccessful!

1. ) Where did he get his medical degree?

2.) Where did he get his Aromatherapy training?

3.) What Aromatherapy associations does he belong to?

Answer any of these, confirmed from a second party ~ not from HIS literature, and maybe minds might open. Of course, then we'd need to address his dangerous practices..... and then, maybe some more of his EOs will have been tested and prove to be.......hmmmm.......

Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 02:03:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: EO Oil Quality & Safety Questions

OK, I have had about as much of this as I can stand and I've even used the delete key on many occassions. WARNING ... this is a passionate and somewhat negative post. You may want to delete. Yes it does concern YLO.

MR Young via his distributors are simply practicing UNSAFE *medicinal* aromatherapy in my OPINION and I am free to state my opinion based on all the things that I have seen and read and heard FIRST HAND. I just got off the phone trying to *fix* yet another persons VERY SERIOUS reaction to applying essential oils NEAT on the skin as recommended by one of the YLO distributors. He told the distributor (a well trained herbalist) about his "rash" and erythema going up and down his arms, and the blisters and hives and she told him "it is just the poisons coming out of your body and it may have to get worse before it gets better" "it is to be expected" ....

He may sue ... (and I did not encourage him, he is an intelligent man and can make that decision clearly without me) and if he does I will volunteer to be his nurse advocate.

And excuse me here folks, regarding the NOW and AC brands and Frontier ...
anyone even without an "educated nose" will *smell* the difference between a pure essential oil of the highest quality and some, maybe not all, of the ones sold by these companies. I would pit my oils, and *many of the other peoples oils on this list* against the "other" oils. This does not say that they are "not good" but believe me, you would know, feel, and smell the difference. There are MANY good suppliers on this list.

Quality re YLO oils HA!! ... this is INSIGNIFICANT TO ME compared to the poor safety standards and questionable promotional techniques and educational issues of MR young. He HAD been asked PERSONALLY to respond for TWO YEARS to give proof of his credentials, "come to the list" ... lets discuss issues openly, freely. WE ALL WANTED TO SEE HIS SIDE THROUGH HIM ...

THE OTHER BIG issue I have is that if his safety standards do not change and his distibuters do not cease and disist their advicing people to use oils NEAT on their skin then THE ENTIRE AROMATHERAPY INDUSTRY will be threatened.

OHHHHH YES, and then there is the preying on peoples FAITH ... lots of biblical quotes mixed with impressive information and hype. Preying on desperate people looking for healing in any shape for form ... much easier to swallow for those with faith, but still desperate. Gary Young is exhalted by his ditributors, most who have never even MET HIM, only know him through HIS literature as some great HOLY MAN ... A HEALER ... who "healed himself with the grace of God with essential oils, preserverance, does so much for the world by his work and sheer existence etc. yadayadayada". GOOD FOR HIM. What does that have to do with the high price of essential oils????

I and many others have been witness to our own miraculous healings on many levels. I credit God and God within and I am sure so do many others. In fact, gee, so does Gary. We just don't necessarily use this as a "selling point" for oils. Preying on peoples faith, to me, is unacceptable. HELPING people through using faith is wonderful.

Go ahead, flame me. My finger is poised ready and waiting on my delete button. I've "lowered" myself (God forgive me) in making this post. I shall not lower myself by getting into a heated debate. Been there, done that.
This is my opinion and I am entitled to it. I am only stating my opinion on this issue once .... until the next surge of YLO distributors come. And I'll save this post for them.

As for me personally ... and how I sell oils (I am mailorder and oh, yes, I am also a "living room" AND Classroom nurse educator/client advocate. I go to peoples homes, churches, schools, senior centers, and many other places for free so I can teach people about basic issues in aromatherapy as well as OTHER complimentary therapies. Whoopie do. (Laraine, I *did* take slight issue with the "living room" sales thing but I know you didn't mean it the way it sounded and did not take it personally. I would like you to know however, that each of us DO practice nursing or AT or simply helping people in a wide variety of ways).

There is NOT A SINGLE OIL that goes out of my company that is not properly labeled. I also give proper dilution instructions with my oils and additional info too. And one more thing ... people can buy tiny amounts at very fair prices because I ENCOURAGE THEM TO COMPARE my oils to others and I don't think it should cost them an arm and a leg as it did me when *I* got started in AT.

DO NOT take this as self advertisement. I assure you it is not, THere are many others on this list who do much the same thing as I. No big "feather in my cap" ... I salute the many other SAFE PRACTICING Aromatherapists / retailers / wholesalers on this list. Many of us spend a tremendous amount of time with our clients to assure they get the right diffusers, the right information, the right oils for their needs. We also spend a great deal of time disseminating what knowledge we have ... sharing views, experiences and our love for the Art and Science of Aromatherapy and ... as proven many times, OUR LOVE for each other.

I am sorry for this negative verbage people ... I just couldn't take it anymore.
I'm done. Maybe you should've pushed the delete button a long time ago. It won't happen again from me. I promise!

S. R. RN
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:08:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: re: EO Oil Quality & Safety Questions

Dear Su,

Don't lose your passion! keep on saying what you feel and believe! I for one, support you. This goes for Gary Young, or any other person who advocates unsafe use of essential oils to untrained people. Yes indeed, as Laraine said, some of his recommendations seem to follow the French medical model, but in that case, medical doctors are practicing aromatic medicine, in a much more controlled manner. Disseminating this information through untrained people becomes like the children's game of *chinese whispers* the information gets distorted, and therefore unsafe along the way.

Don't stop Su..!

all best wishes,
Subject: Re: Justifiable Criticism/faith
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 19:57:51 EDT

On Tue, 27 May 1997 17:42:41 -0400 P.S. writes:
(big snip)
>(Person X says:)
>>OHHHHH YES, and then there is the preying on peoples FAITH ... lots
>>of biblical quotes mixed with impressive information and hype.
>>Preying on desperate people looking for healing in any shape for
>>form ... much easier to swallow for those with faith, but still

I had wanted to comment on this earlier but forgot who said it or where I put it. I'm not trying to disregard Person X's comment, I just wanted to give my view. After re reading the quote I realize that what Person X probably meant was that she feels he is preying on people who possibly have a need in their life for faith in something be that God or AT. But I'm not trying to put words in her mouth.

I am a Christian and hold a very strong faith in God. While I, personally, would not say of myself that I push my faith onto others, in today's world just the mention of one being a "born again" believer can be like announcing one has leprosy. What occured to me were all the Christians that I know who would not even consider AT because it "appears" to be tied in with New Age thinking. We Christians sometimes throw out the baby with the bathwater. That is why I was quite surprised when a Christian friend first told me of aromatherapy-like she even thought there may be something to it!! I was shocked!! (smile) I still have trouble over some of the blends offered by YL (sorry YL distributors but this is the only source I have to quote from) like the blend Acceptance "stimulates the mind, compelling it to open and accept new things in life that would allow one to reach toward one's higher potential..." Now to normal people that may not sound alarming but something about the verbage of "higher potential" rings of New Age. and I find that saying that a blend will stimulate my mind and compell it to open kinda bizzare. OK, I know this is getting long but let me comment on another one(I'm on a roll): Humility "is an integral ingredient in having forgiveness and seeking a closer relationship with God. Through its frequency and fragrance, you MAY find that special place where your own healing may begin." Now, as a Christian there is NO way I would tell someone that they could have a closer relationship with God by using the blend Humility.

But, my real point is this: If you're looking to make money the Christian marketplace is not the best way to go. We are a small target audience. The secular market would be much more profitable.
>This just doesn't match my experience or observations. As an ex-Christian, I myself was at first a bit off >by the several Biblical references Gary included on his tapes,
(another snip here)

My point exactly! Normal people (grin) would be put off by any inclusion of Scripture. If ya wanna make money...go where the money is!

Friendly thoughts,
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:02:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Justifiable Criticism

Pat stated:
One person said she'd rather see no information provided upon the sale of EOs, than misinformation, implying that that is consistently the case with YLEO materials. This isn't exactly an accurate depiction, IMO. What is more accurate is that there perhaps should be additional attention to safety, and there may be some information that could be misconstrued, but I have not seen materials that say that it is always okay to apply all oils neat, and there are also specific directions to dilute them appropriately in the YLEO materials.
For a first hand look at the misinformation you can check out:

This excerpt from Gary Young's book (at a YLEO site) specifically details applying the following oils neat: thyme, oregano, cypress, birch, basil and peppermint. The only "dilutions" stated are to add 10-15 drops of mixing oil on the skin after the neat oils have been applied. I do not consider this to be appropriate dilutions of these oils.

This technique may be OK if the YLEO oils are adulterated, but YLEO distributors are giving the impression that these are pure essential oils and therefore this practice would work with any pure essential oils. Misconstruing information like this is DANGEROUS!

There are several other questionable practices on this page, including the fact that the distributors are given an "out" if the technique doesn't work by stating that " If there are other people in the room with negative attitudes and the individual applying the oils does not have a high enough frequency to block out that negative interference, the results may be less than optimal. "

These are just a few of the things that I think most aromatherapists are objecting to. If a bottle of EO is sold in a store with no directions, it is left to the consumer to learn how to use it. Questionable, yes, but most consumers don't buy products that they don't know how to use if there are no instructions. But if the consumer is being dangerously misinformed in the first place, this gives the whole industry a bad name and also leads to agencies like the FDA deciding that the whole industry needs to be controlled. There are serious consequences to what you call "misconstrued information".

L. A.
Subject: Re: EO Oil Quality & Safety Questions


(By the way, I *loved* (not) the blatant adversing about the YLO Starter Kits ... it was cool (not). Gee, should I post the great deals I have on starter kits too???????? Am I *jealous*?? Don't make me laugh. I find it a joke.

He.., in all fairness to you, I would be careful what I ask for, you just might get it. I realize you are just trying to seperate fact and fiction so God Bless Ya, you'll be doing a lot of reading for your boss!!! Personally, I wouldn't waste my time, but, then again, I really feel like I am wasting my time on this list at the present moment.

The bottom line is: Mr Youngs integrity, EDUCATION (he claims to be a doctor of naturopathy) among other things like HIS OWN RESEARCH, etc etc etc etc etc and this has not been proven even ... there are only words from other distributors who hang on HIS every word passed down from other distributers NOT HE HIMESELF to defend him. This "proof" is saddly laughable. All I have EVER SEEN is the propaganda (that is my OPINION) spit out by other distributors verbetim ...and MORE (that's another big concern for me ... "the MORE". MLM's are good at exhalting those higher in the food change. They can be like "cults" ... this is surely obvious.

OHHHHHH yes, and when his distributers pass out UNSAFE INFORMATION or make UNSAFE CLAIMS FOR USAGE and SOMEONE GETS HURT ... just expect to heAR more or the same until you get yourself a lawyer as MR YOUNG WILL SURELY NOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HIS REPRESENTATIVES DO ... UNFORTUNATELY *THIS* IS THE LAW.


Case in point (I know a little about the law here): EX: I am a nurse. I am working in ICU. ... A AM ACTUAL, qualified, board certified physician gives an order that I find questionable or unsafe to the patient. Lets say it is a new drug that I only know a little about. I know that it can be good in the right circumstances and it is indeed used in the exact situtation that my patient is in. I give the drug JUST like the doctor says. They patient dies because of this drug and his reaction to. No one picked up on the fact that he was also taking another drug (in the recent past) that had the POTENTIAL for causing some problems with this other new drug. I, the nurse, had "heard" a little bit about this but ... I figured the doctor that even I TRUSTED knew more than me and what was better for that patient. So the damage is done. The patient dies.

Any ideas who will be sued???

ALL of us, the doctor, the hospital, the nurse.

Any idea who will probably loose their license, (or at least be SEVERELY REPREMANDED) and be held accountable for that paitients death?

Answer: THE NURSE and chances are the nurse only. FACT. Do your own research on this. I've done mine but no one seems to believe ME. No one seems to be listening and / or no one seems to "GET IT".


Gee, I really hope so.

Happy happy selling.

Here is a post you can take to your boss ... and distributors .... please do give this to GARY YOUNG IF YOU ARE HIGH ENOUGH ON THE CHAIN OF COMMAND TO REACH HIM AND TALK TO HIM PERSONALLY >>> YOU WILL GET NO MORE FROM ME. And if he wishes to comment to ME ... he can do so to the list, in public, him and him alone, no lawyers, just him and me. up front. I'm tired of "fixing" his *ditributors* messes. I have no personal contact with his of course. Since one of the well respected chemists and list members got a job testing his oils for purity, gee, maybe I can get a job with the YLO crew as his safety consultant.
a very tired and disgusted
S. R.
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:37:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Justifiable Criticism

Hello List
I am normally a quiet person, and I ask questions and share what I can, however, silence is not always golden. So I must speak here instead of letting it run through my head.

A few weeks ago, I recieved a YL package in the mail. At the time I did not know what it was about...I had an e mail stating there was this oil and I could get a package and a tape and , well of course I like to research these things.

Before I had a chance to really play the tape, I opened the package and read all this stuff about God....for me that was strike one. I would not sell anything that is based on God or the use of God to sell a product. This is a cheap form of attracting someones attention. For 19.95 you too can be closer to God...sorry ....I am not Christian, nor any other religion, I simply believe in the universe and the beauty and well what I call Tylerism, a bit of everything that pertains to me.....
But I was appauled that the use of God and Bible scriptures were used to SELL a product, mainly a product like EO's.

Then Ibegan to read the posts and promptly threw out the tape and material.
I also sent this web site to many friends and told them of the list and what was being said. I gave as much warning as I felt I could.
Many people I told could not believe Garry would use God to sell his product, I threw out the material to prove my point though , but told them to take my word, and to check the web sight that has been recommended by people in this group.

Now here is my thing, first thank you all for sharing so much with this group. I get overwhelmed because of how busy I am , and run several support groups over the internet as well as locally and am busy in school, and running my small business, BUT, the mail here is worth reading.....AND I enjoy this group very much...which made me come to a point I had to ponder.

I got into the essential oils because I believed in their healing power and the ability they had to promote healing and spirituality.
I research and do my work to know that what little business I do, I do out of care and love. Matter fact, i am not a good business woman, I lose money and gain hardly any profits by selling blends that I make because I think sharing is what is important. I barely cover a lot of my own costs.

But to me, healing with oils and energy {I do some energy work} is about spirituality and about being honest, and having a natural appraoch to HEALTHY Healing.
My number one care and concern is for the person I am trying to help. Nothing more. I think the EO is spiritual and to sell it like the YL oils are being sold, somehow just means we are using oils for a HUGE profit and then we care more about how many people we can get to represent us, and how much money we can make, and I asked where does the real care come in?
To me, EO is about a natural approach....natural and no harm to others, this is what I am always thinking about. How can I help, without hurting someone at all. I could not live with myself PERIOD!

Thanks so much for letting me post. If someone needs to flame me for this post, that is fine, I can not help that I wrote what I felt, and that I agree so much with what so many people here are saying.
I will take the flames, but I will not take some one being hurt, or anything else over bad oils, and a company that doesn't care, and uses God or any other type of higher power to promote its sells. I think if a man can not sell his product based on his experience and has to use God to sell, then there is a BIG problem.
What ever happened to promoting things because we ourself believe in the product.
I personally do not need God to sell my product, I sell what little I sell out of my heart, and that is good enough for me.
Thanks for putting up with my I said, I do not believe silence is golden.

Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 21:30:17 -0700
Subject: Re: YL and bad advice

J. B. wrote:
> Just another point of view to consider in this continuing discussion.
> Since I am the one who got this latest round of discussion started I
> have a couple of observations I want to share.
> Judging from the posts you were all kind enough to forward to me
> about the concerns over YL and the practices of some of YL's
> distributors, it appears that much of the concerns have resulted
> from information available from a couple of web-pages and personal
> experience with a few unscrupulous and mis-informed distributors.

Jackie - I truly have appreciated your interest re: clarifying many of the issues raised about the YLO (Young Living Organiz.) - My concerns do not stem from web pages or unscrupulous distributors - but from Gary Young himself... I attended only one marketing/educational meeting in Denver about a year and a half ago when GY told the people in the audience they could call themselves "aromatologists" as "there were no standards for aromatherapy certification in place in the US anyway".
What an attitude. Helpful....? not!
> It is unfortunate that a few bad apples have spoiled the whole
> barrel so to speak. All points of concern are well taken and steps
> are being taken to correct the errors made by these uninformed
> distributors. However, with over 60,000 people signed up as
> distributors, it seems most unfair for anyone to think that all of
> these distributors are misinformed and unknowledgeable about eo's
> and aromatherapy.

To think that 60,000 distributors have "signed up" and are "duplicating" the teaching of unsafe neat oil practices in addition to preaching the "energetics" of the essential oils is disturbing to me for several reasons. As an example, an RN in my aromatherapy training this past weekend told me of another nurse in her community, completely new to aromatherapy, who recently "signed up" as a distributor with YLO, now presents herself an "aromatherapy teacher" - and what is she teaching, I ask?

Believe me when I say this is NOT sour grapes --- It SADDENS me greatly that many people who become enthuastic about essential oils and their potential will UNKNOWINGLY compromise the efforts OF MANY OF US in holding to safe standards in use, being cautious not to make unfounded, unreferenced claims.

I wonder if GY will be responsive to his distributors if they are targeted by the "Rocky Mountain Skeptics" - a watch-dog organization that is VERY alive and well in our region of the country. Believe me, if "aromatherapy" is targeted in our community, IT WILL AFFECT ME!!! and I care!! Note: "What's That I Smell? The Claims of Aromatherapy, SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, May/June, 1996.

> of eo's. Again, no where in any of the literature that I have received from YL have I seen these blatant misuses of the oils
> suggested. Only an accounting of his own experiences in using them
> -- both neat and diluted. I still have not found a reference to
> putting oils neat on the eyelids. Did this come from someone's web-
> site? The information about using Helichrysum to help restore
> hearing explains that the oil was used on the area behind the ear
> and on the accupressure points around the ear -- Not that the oil
> was put directly in the ear. Nor did GY say that this was a cure for > hearing loss, only that there were 3 cases studied and that it
> looked promising and he explained why it looked promising.

Dr. Terry Friedman, teaching a YLO E. O. workshop recommended the application of Sandalwood essential oil on the eyelid in a session I attended. I saw Helichrysum placed on the finger and massaged in the ear - yet heard of a friend's husband who applied Helichrysum to the ear canal with a Q-tip and nearly went to the Emergency Room because of the burning pain. I don't know if this was what he was told to do or not???

There is an erronous "more is better" attitude among YLO, I have noticed.

And, I did hear of a neat application of an eo (?) "behind the ear of a crying baby " to calm it....pleeeaaase.... NOT!

AND, IT IS THE WORD OF MOUTH TYPE OF EDUCATIONAL "PASS IT ALONG" that has the ON-GOING POTENTIAL of creating and perpetrating mis-information .

And thank you Susan for not taking my earlier comments about the "living room sales" thing personally -- please hear my concern instead.

There are many historical references to rely on in discussing ancient uses of aromatic oils. What I personally object to is the "God made them for us to use" - yes, and he gave us a brain to use them judiciously - with respect - with even a little awe, for good measure! Personally, I disliked the evangelical tone in the distributor meeting I attended which encouraged a "true beleiver mentality" -- but this is encouraged in other MLM organizations - part of the marketing thing - but IN THIS CASE, WITH THIS PRODUCT, the MLM furvor compromises logical thought and basic factual information , including safety, which IS MY FUNDAMENTAL CONCERN, NOT GY'S SALES......We are not selling auto tires or long distance phone cards.

By the way, some of my friends are GY distributors and I can speak to their "waiting for answers", also. I sincerely hope GY takes some self-corrective action in refraining from making unfounded claims and, "modeling" unsafe practices for his distributors to "pass along" to other excited, discoverers of essential oils. And if he dosen't know about the "Rocky Mountain Skeptics" and their recent activities with complementary health care practices he should buy a copy of the SKEPTICAL INQUIRER and inform himself of the potential...

Respectfully to all,
L. K.
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 10:59:37 +0000
To: ""
Subject: YL - The Big Picture

Ann & others following this thread...

I agree there has been heated debate over this issue and that flaming does get the best of us. However, there is a simple reason for thing some of you keep missing about all this.

1) We still have contradictory information about Gary Youngs credentials.

2) Most of what I have read & heard about applying oils neat to the skin have been directly from GARY YOUNG! I've read the literature, listened to the tapes AND his monthly conference calls. The information has come directly from him.

If these two items could be addressed instead of all the other superfluous bantering we would be on the road to clarity sans flaming.
Address the issues.


Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 18:06:56 -0700
From: S-L

I never heard of YL before until the last time the subject came up on this list. Later that same week, I came across two YL distributors. So S.... is right, it is not just a US thing. It's already in Canada (at least here in BC). Like that Melaleuka MLM before it (no, lets not go there!) these things generally seem to start in the US and spread from there.

The main concern is SAFETY. I feel that the concerns expressed by those that have been called YL bashers or whatever are very valid. The dangerous use of eo's have serious ramifications for both individuals and the industry as a whole, whether they be a result of the uninformed or misinformed or those that just don't care...whether they be YL or other MLM distributors, manufacturers of body care products, or *certified* aromatherapists or estheticians.

I understood where some of the people who posted on this subject were coming from. When some people just do not get it, or try to cloud the issue, one may have to be a little more blunt to get the point across.
There's nothing wrong with passion about such a serious issue as safety.

The person who has been slammed and called a flamer for "getting personal" has apparently had a lot of personal experience (bad) with the results of such unsafe practices. This person is also someone who contributes a lot to this list. I don't blame her for being passionate considering she is one (of many I'm sure) who has to treat the poor people hurt by these unsafe practices.

Thanks to all who have contributed on this thread. I have learned a great deal. I think it all just reiterates what many have been saying, that the key is education. Lets hope these unsafe practices will stop before too many people are hurt and without intervention from government bodies like the FDA. Probably going to be flamed for this one but IMHO, I believe that these type of practices are what leads to regulation and banning of natural products (see Codex thread). I've heard a rumor that the actions (practices & claims) of one company has already led to the imminent restriction of one eo here in Canada. That ditty about GY working with the FDA had me cringing in my chair! If that's true, is he in cahoots with the pharmaceutical companies or just looking to have some kind of exclusive on eo's? (who the hell does he think he is? I don't recall anyone voting him sole representative of the industry) Might as well hand the whole industry over to the drug companies, then we can all pay three times the price for inferior eo's that we would need to have prescribed by a dr.!! I really have to shake my head when I hear about people who desire more regulation and bureaucratic involvement (read red-tape).


Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997

Dear L....,

>S.... said,
>I thought putting "neat helichrysum in the ears for hearing loss" or >"neat sandalwood on the eyelids to increase sight" was ridiculously
>BAD and unethical not to mention unsafe- - BUT THIS IS LOTS WORSE.

THIS IS GOING TOO FAR. Putting these known irritant oils on the skin in large amounts undiluted is unsafe and stupid, but repeating it, scratching it in and applying hot towels is BLATANT ABUSE. THESE ARE HIGHLY IRRITANT OILS AND SHOULD NEVER BE APPLIED NEAT, MUCH LESS REPEATEDLY AND COVERED WITH A HOT TOWEL. (I have already heard of one case entering a hospital with severe chemical burns to the spinal area due to this practice.

I don't care what anyone else says or does. But I for one will do all within my power to help make known and try to stop the dangerous practices related to YL oils. If you are not aware of the danger then I beg you to not practice with essential oils on human beings. horrified, h..........

Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:13:42 -0600
Subject: Re: YL Raindrop therapy misinfo

I am apologizing in advance - this is no offense to anyone personally - although I suggest strongly, VERY STRONGLY, that you go to the library - any public library, and take out some aromatherapy books and read them. Read books written by people other than followers of YL. Then you will see EXACTLY what the fuss is about YL, his oils, and his methodology.

In absolutly any aromatherapy book you will never, I repeat, *NEVER*, see any author suggesting or implying to put thyme or basil oil directly on the skin - it simply is TOO LATE to apply carriers afterwards, you have already done the damage. Most writings I have read, state that basil and thyme should be used with the UTMOST care at the MINIMUM amount possible and only for very specific ailments.

That is if the thyme and basil oil is a true 100% pure essential oils. My Personal therory (and I am an American and ENTITLED to my opinion) is that YL simply does not sell true, pure essential oils. The "oils" may be nothing but synthetics or something with an odor similar to thyme and basil. Which could be why you state "it doesn't hurt you or your husband."

Please, Please try to expand your base of information. Go to the library.
Look up Aromatherapy books - there are plenty of them. Read the books you choose. Begin your true learning. Take one of the courses offered by members of this list that are not involved with YL. Get a "Second Opinion!" Learn safe ways to use and enjoy the benefits of essential oils!

=============The end, of extracts from a massive list of emails.===========

Back to Articles Archive   Back to Home page